It seems to me that an argument for free will being necessary for knowledge acquisition is that the first thoughts were very simple. Some people like Brussels sprouts. So, let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel Paradoxically this will be the ultimate triumph of freedom. So, let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel As I said, reason doesn’t give you any goals or motivations, just a way of achieving them; you have to have values to have those goals in the first place. But it's increasingly clear just how contingent that is—eventually we will make human nature. So lets G do it like they do on the dis F covery channel (Get horny now!) Individual people will possess no freedom, but that will be no more lamentable than the fact the cells in your body possess no individual freedom. [Bridge] 159,167 views, added to favorites 6,254 times. Getting horny now. But be nice. Am You and me baby ain't C nothin' but mammals. I believe that, despite ryan’s objections, said thought experiment is impossible, because a valueless cockraoch is one that could never be succesful or anything else, because he has no motiviation to even move. Do we care about those things because they're important to us, or do we further want it to be the case that they continue to be important to whoever mans the great gap between us and the giant telepathic cockroaches? That being said, I agree with Ken that it would further be impossible for a roach not to value freedom to some degree, even if it were freedom of movement to collect for his brother roaches. Interesting that everyone here seems to be working from the assumptions that human nature seeks freedom, and that freedom is necessary for happiness. Freedom allows us to improve ourselves and the conditions for our species. We will all be servants to the ‘hive’. Do it again now P.S. But there are several other very important differences In theory it would be nice if this common goal included a path for the good of individuals as well, but assuming everyone in the group agrees on the goal, I don’t think it’s necessary. Actually, SixSigma, you err is failing to realize that there is no difference between working for your own goals and working for the goals of others if you have decided that the goals of others also benefit yourself. So, let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel If there’s a more libertarian side, I’ll root for them. I didn’t say “valueless” — just no values that you share. It seems to me that if there is no free will, then all bets are off. They mate for life. And here most people would agree, especially in say a family unit, that they would be willing to give up their individual happiness in order to further the group’s happiness. His first independent sentence was “Let me out of this cage.”, “UCLA Study Points To Evolutionary Roots Of Altruism, Moral Outrage”, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041129111632.htm. I’m waving my wand. But, we must be right about many things as evidenced by our predictive ability. in the morning. F. 2. We’d make great pets (to quote Porno for Pyros). Well, in the no free will scenario, isn’t how our brains (minds) handle this input determined by previous conditions as well? 1 of 27. All content on this page is the property of the copyright owner of the original composition. If you’re going to argue that freedom and/or love are necessarily important for any powerful, successful, sentient species, then it seems to me you… The universe is not deterministic because there is quantum mechanics. Author platypuspurple [a] 72. (That’s called “the magic ‘if'”, people. Well now, we call this the act of mating, Sweat baby, sweat baby, sex is a Texas drought, Me and you do the kind of stuff that only Prince would sing about, So put your hands down my pants and I'll bet you'll feel nuts, Yes, I'm Siskel, yes, I'm Ebert and you're getting two thumbs up, You've had enough of two-hand touch, you want it rough, you're out of bounds, I want you smothered, want you covered, like my Waffle House hash browns, just like Coca-Cola stock, you are inclined, To make me rise an hour early, just like Daylight Savings Time, You and me, baby, ain't nothing but mammals, Love, the kind you clean up with a mop and bucket, Like the lost catacombs of Egypt, only God knows where we stuck it, Hieroglyphics, let me be Pacific: I wanna be down in your South Seas, But I got this notion that the motion of your ocean means "Small Craft Advisory".